Goddesses, Grit & Gratitude: Nathalie Edwards Explores the Therapeutic Power of Art and Its Role in Fostering Community
Nathalie Edwards (00:00)
My name is Natalie Edwards. born in London, and I'm actually half French.
He said to me, I'm not being funny, but you, a woman on your own, why do you want to buy a big half built property And I said, I want to create a place that artists can come and stay. a ceramic artist and I want a separate studio. And he said, that's very interesting. I said, why did you buy it? he said, I wanted to build a cooperative art gallery.
I was like, oh, so the same sort of thing.
very much feels like he started the work he passed me the baton for me to carry on.
Heather Ebanks (00:50)
What does it take to walk away from the comfort of a high paying career and to start again? Natalie Edwards, a ceramic artist, project manager a creative visionary traded her corporate job in London for the quiet countryside of Southwest rural France. She shares the raw truth of her transition from guilt
and burnout in a male-dominated industry to the healing power of creativity and community.
We talk about navigating fear.
managing finances and how her daughter's creativity sparked her idea to create the Goddess We also talk about the realities of running a creative retreat and the importance of finding or building communities that truly see you.
Nathalie Edwards (01:35)
been very creative, but it wasn't really valued in my home when I was growing up as a child, so I was sort told to get on with finding a real job. I'm sure that's true of many creatives of my generation.
I went to university as a mature student with when the kids were young. So I had a five, seven and nine year old when I started my degree. I was just lucky that I could actually drop the kids at school and drive to uni and they pick them up after school. So, and I set up my own business as a project manager eventually. And it was, I do a lot of onsite work.
did a lot of on-site work with high-end luxury residential and doing retail rollouts. I had was traveling around France doing a very uninspiring DIY shop rollout. But what it did do is give me an opportunity to explore all the different regions of France. That was 2010,
And all the while I was sussing out the regions and the landscapes and the towns I eventually live in France, where will it be kind of of that journey led me to a place called Millau, pronounced Mille, locally, where I completely fell in love with the landscape. Fast forward several years, I decided I wanted to carve out a more creative life for myself.
living in France I was craving more space, connection with nature and landscapes, skyscapes and seasons really. I lived in a little Victorian terrace in North it's very different. you know I found the place in 2016 it took two years and lots of
negotiating and problems with French banks because of Brexit. But finally moved over here in 2018 and that's where I am now and spent of my time as an artist, ceramic artist and writing and running the business of the Mill France as a creative retreat centre for other artists to come and join me in my space.
Heather Ebanks (04:07)
When hear the following bold voices, messy journeys, zero apologies, what part of your story do you think immediately springs to mind
Nathalie Edwards (04:18)
Bold journeys, definitely. a massive challenge moving over here and it got so complicated and protracted At one point I thought, is this the universe trying to tell me don't do it, don't do it? Am I completely bonkers? And so A very good friend of mine said, it was quite profound actually.
for me. She said the problem is the female lineage for centuries behind you has followed a certain path in one direction, married, kids, dependent on husband or spouse. And you're the person in the female lineage that has decided to change the direction and do what she really wants to do. And she said it's like steering an oil tanker.
Heather Ebanks (05:13)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (05:15)
all the lineage DNA behind you and before you is like quite resistant to this change to get you in a different direction. And she said, and that's why it feels so challenging. And that really resonated with me. Um, so I kept going.
Heather Ebanks (05:29)
Mmm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (05:33)
Yeah, messy journeys. I think I would be described previously as a people-pleaser mentality. of my background, I was always very...
very worried about upsetting the status quo and not causing any problems and keeping myself a bit small and making sure everyone was happy and putting to the bottom of the list. The no apologies bit is the bit that I've struggled with. sometimes there's even a bit of guilt for making such a drastic change.
my children are all grown ups the youngest was 20 when I moved over here. they'd off and gone traveling and were living their own lives. My middle one was just finishing.
an apprenticeship, so he was still living at When I sort of tabled the idea, this is what I think I want to do. But I framed it in a way that I just said, I don't have to do this now. I can, if you guys aren't ready for me to do it, I can do it in a few years time, another property will come up. It's not a big And to their credit, they were all super, super supportive and were
really wanting me to do it. they're all fine with it and they love coming here and they really are super supportive. But I think there was bit of guilt around that really.
I could have had kind of a much easier life There would been more disposable income than there has been in the last few years. But I don't regret it in any way.
Heather Ebanks (07:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see your point because as creatives, you've got this, you're pushing pull situation where you've got to support your family and at the same time, you've got to feed them, look after them. think it sounds like there's something inside you that was calling to you because as you said, you're a project manager. That environment gives the impression that it wasn't really, it's very male dominated. What would you say your as a project manager?
Nathalie Edwards (07:42)
Yeah, it was very, it's very in the masculine. So yes, was on site, building sites quite a lot of the time, usually surrounded by guys. And most of the time I felt like I was trying to be a school dinner lady and getting everyone to play nicely. So ⁓ that's the baseline assessment. There was an element of creativity in it as you're transforming something into something else. But it was...
Heather Ebanks (07:46)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (08:07)
under huge timeline pressures obviously, especially in the retail sector you had 28 days to change it around and it didn't matter if the unit next door had flooded into your unit or what it had to be open. So the projects were very intense and you were on call 24 7 and it was very kind of, you the project led and then you sort of have to lie down in the dark room for a while and recover for a bit of time before you hit the next one. And I did love
Heather Ebanks (08:11)
Right, okay. ⁓
Mm.
Yeah.
Nathalie Edwards (08:37)
love the adrenaline and the sort of the project, and having a completion is like, we've transformed from this to this. I loved that element of things, but it wasn't, my own personal creativity that was coming out and these, these things. And I, so I started doing evening classes in pottery just to reconnect with my own creativity.
Heather Ebanks (08:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (09:02)
fell in love with pottery and then started trying to shape my work week around having a Wednesday evening off and a Friday I could do these different things. Yeah, so that's kind of the creativity that just kept coming. I guess it'd been suppressed for years and years.
Heather Ebanks (09:16)
Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah, definitely want to get into your current business later on. But I'll be also interested about your ceramic and your artwork in a moment. what was that final push from jumping from your project manager role even though you felt that pressure, what was that final push that got you to where you are now?
Nathalie Edwards (09:47)
This is going to sound maybe a bit mad, but I'd been doing a 21 day meditation with Deepak Chopra. You know, it's an online thing, 20 minutes of a day. And I was in Italy with a friend of mine in Florence and looking at so much art, so inspiring. But just to backtrack a little bit, I did have a business idea.
that I was researching following my degree show and alongside me doing ⁓ my project management job and it was taking up quite a lot of time and I realised that I would have to get a huge amount of funding to launch this thing in my head I had it was going to take a few years to get
Heather Ebanks (10:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (10:36)
a few million pounds to fund this project. Did I want to be doing that, chasing money for this big idea and what would it give me in the end? And somebody, a friend of mine had said, you know, what do you want from creating this amazing offer And I was like, I just want to, I just want to be an artist really and just hang around with other artists. She said, why don't you bypass all that headache with that problem, with that project and just go for what you really want.
Heather Ebanks (11:03)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (11:06)
So with her encouragement and then this meditation and being in Florence, it just was like a light bulb moment looking at this on the wall with lots of people sitting along the long table. It might have been the or something. And I just thought, I just want to create and I said create and serve out loud. And it became...
When I initially started the business, it was very much about serving others with like facilitating and hosting retreats and things. is an element of that. But what I realized I was doing was I was 100 % serving others and not serving myself. the artwork got less and less and less as I was running the business more and more and sort of making was having a really fab time. So as is often the case when you start.
business you start morphing it slightly and changing the direction working towards changing the set up slightly so that it serves me more as an artist alongside other people.
Heather Ebanks (12:17)
it just seems to be that as well as you finding yourself, you had this drive to find your own people, your community. tell me how regards to the because it's very much your business is centered around other artists and building a community. So
slightly fast forward, you go to France and you decide to make a wonderful building into that's falling apart. I think it was a lot of work needed to do, tell me about the mill and how that came about when you, and how did you find it?
Nathalie Edwards (13:01)
Well, I decided that I liked, that I loved this region, I loved the landscape, as I said, when I was doing the work around in the area. And in the summer of 2016, I came specifically back to the region, up some bookings with an estate agent to go and view some properties. it was my daughter's 18th birthday, so we'd done a little bit of a road trip and we came here.
we stayed in a nice little chateau hotel just up the road, very close to that place that I worked in some years earlier. I'd standing outside the front of this DIY shop and of the landscape. It's just by the Norman Foster's Mill Outbridge and sent it to a friend and said, I think I've decided where I want to live at some point in the future.
And at that point I had no idea what that would look like. So my daughter and I were in this lovely little hotel up the road. We had five or six properties to go and visit all around the same price point. And in my head, fallen in love with one of these properties up on this big farm up on the Lazzat Plateau. And so in my head I had that as a right place. And obviously as a project manager, I had a
requirements list of every bill, you know, of what I it was very specific. we arrived at this hotel. was a really hot day. We dumped our bags off, jumped into this little pool and we could see the Millard Bridge. And my phone pinged and it was this new property alert. And I looked at it and I said, that's weird. This property has just come up and it's literally a two minutes drive down the road.
I thought, it's a bit industrial, it's a be by river, there'll be mosquitoes, it'll be in a flood zone, know, project manager, Red flags, red flags, red flags. But I called the owner, spoke to him, and he then proceeded to tell me all the things that were wrong with the property.
But said if you want to come and look at it in the morning I'll come and pick you up. Because it was around the same price point I said to my daughter well let's just go and have a look. It would be a good benchmark with the other properties. So he picked us up and parked at the end of the land and we walked between the river and the canal so we saw the end of the building first. My daughter was walking in front of me she turned around and she just went
And I felt exactly the same. And I had this sensation that the building was like, I've been waiting for you. That sounds a bit mad, but it really was. It ticked all the boxes, access to we're by a river. A separate ceramic studio space, a space that could be a ceramic studio had that. Some land, it had that.
internal space that could be changed into bedrooms and bathrooms, it had that. Structurally sound, ⁓ an event space, stroke exhibition space, it had that. It has been flooded three times in the last hundred years, prepared to take that risk. There are no mosquitoes because the bats have on the top floor and eat all the mosquitoes. It's a building that's been here solid for 300 years, so it's not like having a little prefab.
you know, on the side of the River Thames near Marlowe that's just going to get washed away and be unusable after it gets wet. It's used to being flooded. So, it had been a functioning flour mill until the year 2000, quite recently it been in the same family for all that time. And I met Jean-Robert Farbray, the last person that owned the mill.
And he basically locked the door one day, said, I'm done, don't want to do this anymore. Paid everyone their severance money and carried on living in his house up the road because it was a functioning flour mill. There was no habitable space in it, just full of machinery and flour. So when he left the building, you can see this wall behind me. There's another part of it, that wasn't there. This was all...
filled with machines. This space here, we're on the first floor. And so it was empty for five years. So let's take it to 2005. 2005, 2006, then a guy called Serge, he bought the place and I bought it from him. In his time here, he put on two big roofs on two different parts of the building.
took out all the big really ugly machinery, built a little kitchen, a bedroom, a loo and a apartment on the top floor and the rest of it was just big empty spaces, no electrics, no heating, no wiring. So from my perspective as a project manager, he'd started the work, he'd done it the expensive hard things, the roofs, taking out all the machinery and all the flour and
He said to me, Serge Leone, he said, I'm not being funny, but you, a woman on your own, why do you want to buy a big half built property like And I said, I want to create a place that artists can come and stay. a ceramic artist and I want a separate studio. And he said, that's very interesting. And I said, why did you buy it? And he said, I wanted to build a cooperative art gallery.
So I was like, oh, so the same sort of thing. And he said, yeah, yeah, very aligned. And I think it's a big, it's a thousand square meters of building. I don't know what that is in feet, but a And I think he just got worn out with what he was doing. he actually was quite an introvert.
Heather Ebanks (18:54)
stars aligned.
Nathalie Edwards (19:14)
very creative himself, but I don't think he said, I'm, I'm not really good at talking to people. And so that, that, that side of the business where you need to be able to communicate with people to make things happen. He didn't really have that side of things. he was happy renovating building and tinkering with his bikes and artwork and stuff. So it very much feels like he started the work he passed me the baton for me to carry on.
and he comes back quite frequently and has a look I show him around and show him all the things I've done and he said the last time I saw him he said I knew you were the right person to take it on because you're using your creativity and you're not just ripping the heart out of it and you know replica units within the property.
Heather Ebanks (20:07)
That's wonderful because anyone can just, refurb a place. But I think as you were saying, it just feels like you're continuing that story and putting the soul back into the property or continuing to do that. And so you have your project manager hat on where you're doing this work. And of course, it sounds like
Nathalie Edwards (20:22)
Yeah.
Heather Ebanks (20:32)
it needed some work done because an older building. So while all of this is going on, where in your journey did you decide, okay, now I'm going to make this business happen? When did you start thinking of getting the artists into the building and how did that come about and how was it for you now?
Nathalie Edwards (20:56)
Well, what happened is I spent the first year renovating the property. We used a local plumber and a local electrician. I knew what I wanted all the spaces to be, more or less straight away, and that hasn't really deviated very much. That visioning how I wanted things wasn't the difficult bit. The funding And then we had friends and I had... ⁓
I don't know you've heard of Workaway, somebody mentioned it to me after I'd been here for a few months and I was like, would people really want to come and help me with this project? And she's like, And actually this place has been built with the love of many volunteers who have
But I'd said to myself right at the very beginning of the project that I'm not just going to work at it like a, project that has a timeline I really wanted enjoy the experience and connect with the local community along the way as much as I possibly could. So that basically meant most weekends there was some festival going on and I would go with the workaways and we'd...
we'd have a lovely time and whenever I was invited to anything I would go and that also meant we had lots of local people who were really curious about what we were doing and interested and nearly every day there was someone walking down the drive saying oh I thought you might like to meet this musician here or oh I heard that you need somebody who makes double glazed windows meet so and it's been I felt very supported by the local community massively
we spent one year renovating I just had a bit of Airbnb going on and a lot of friends coming over to visit obviously and family. My son built the kitchen on the ground floor, that was one of the first things we did. And then I had these work away helpers volunteering, which was wonderful. And then we hit the pandemic.
Heather Ebanks (22:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (22:58)
So I had lined up some retreats and residencies with various artists and that all got blown out of the water. So I had two very, very challenging years financially.
Heather Ebanks (22:58)
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (23:14)
Yeah, well, as we all did, as many of us did, I think. And initially, I really panicked. But I had a work away who stayed with me for six months, actually. And he we built we built two more rooms with very little funds to make use of the time. And that's also when the sort of first moment when I had some proper time for my creativity.
Heather Ebanks (23:16)
Yeah, ⁓
Mm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (23:42)
And that's when I started making goddesses.
Heather Ebanks (23:46)
it sounds like, because to what you've just said about the community was very important and not just within your immediate surroundings, but the whole of the region seems to have just rolled up their sleeves as well. And the locals got involved and you're supporting you and you supporting them.
It sounds like that's at the heart of everything that you've been doing, as well as helping the artists as well. sounds it like it's good for you, even though there were dark times. Hopefully we'll continue, to be, because you're doing retreats as well. the goddess collection. Tell me about that. Your daughter of inspired you.
Nathalie Edwards (24:28)
Yes, so during the first lockdown, like a lot of people, really suffered with anxiety and separating from the kids. I mean, they're all living their own lives and they're in the UK and they're all fine. But I had, I just suffered with, you know, not being able to get to them and then not being
I found that super challenging as did millions of people across the world. So I also didn't really have any funds coming in because I couldn't have people here. So it was a massively testing time and I just felt I needed some distraction like lots of phone calls with the kids on Zoom as everybody did. spent a lot of time reassuring me that they're all fine and it's not the end of the world.
and calming me down. And I was still unpacking boxes at that time and I'd unpacked a small female form sculpture that my daughter had done some years previously. And I just started with some clay making some female forms. And as I was doing them, they were really morphing into something a bit more... ⁓
Heather Ebanks (25:36)
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (25:49)
They just were taking on their own characters and it didn't feel like they were very exaggerated or primitive female forms that were forming. And they reminded me of like the goddess sculptures that get dug up around the world. And simultaneous to that, I was waking up at 1.11 every morning and
Heather Ebanks (25:52)
Hmm.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Nathalie Edwards (26:15)
it was so random like, ⁓ it's 111. And then the next night I'd look at the clock, because I like repeated numbers, obviously, well, obviously maybe. And then it just became...
Heather Ebanks (26:24)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (26:31)
really odd that I was waking at that time so I started looking into the significance of repeated numbers and you know all the sacred texts around the world have put significance onto repeated numbers one one one two two two three three and the first series of goddesses I decided to make 111 and I made them out of 1.1 kilos of clay that's how they start and they will form by hand so some of that gets taken away
Heather Ebanks (26:38)
Mm.
Hmm.
Why?
Nathalie Edwards (27:01)
and they were to be sold individually and they were clear glazed stoneware and as I was making them I had that they were sort of forming a bigger group on the table as it were and eventually I put them out on a big long table in the exhibition space the flower store and laid them out in rows of five with one at the front and
Heather Ebanks (27:15)
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (27:28)
They were so powerful and it literally was a solo exhibition as I was the only one that could come and see it because it was locked down. And I sort of as I was making them, I came to the idea of making 111 representing the four elements earth, air, fire and water. And so eventually there will be 444 in the collection.
Heather Ebanks (27:36)
Mm.
Mm-mm.
Nathalie Edwards (27:59)
display together bit like the terracotta army smaller in size scale like a female
I'm about halfway through. I've set myself the goal of completing the whole series by the end of this year for display
hoping to achieve that but we'll we'll see.
Heather Ebanks (28:24)
sounds amazing it sounds like you're obviously evolving and you've gone through these these big life changes and it just seems that you're settling into your environment and you seem to be picking up something that you know you're listening because some people just go through life and ignore the signals and the signs but you seem to be like embracing it and using that as part of your creativity
being where you are now, seems like that's helping you with your art. So I just find that really fascinating that as designers, we push our creativity aside, but we try and find our way in somehow through whether it's our environment or it's for the community that we're in. So yeah, tell me about your retreats and...
What's happening now with the kind of things that you're doing? You're balancing your art as well as trying to be a business person. What kind of activities and helping other artists, what are you doing with them?
Nathalie Edwards (29:27)
Yeah, I think a lot of us have to balance earning a living with being a creative artist. cons with that. the positive thing is you can make things without having the pressure of having to sell because you're making money somewhere else to cover your, you know, we all need money to live kind of thing.
Heather Ebanks (29:45)
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (29:51)
then the negative is you have to spend time doing that other thing to allow you the freedom to be an artist. And it's that balance. And I haven't quite got it in alignment yet perfectly, but I think that's okay. I think I've spent time, you know, beating myself up with, should have those things finished by now. Why haven't I progressed so much and
Heather Ebanks (29:52)
Mm.
Hmm.
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (30:20)
I'm still not spending enough time because I'm writing a book as well. So I'm trying to write a book as well. I'm about 60,000 words into that. And I've just had to accept that things go in fits and starts. The idea is the winter months are my months for making and writing and the summer months are the months where I host and facilitate other artists and writers here.
on retreats and residencies. So we run self-directed writers' retreats and so I just provide this space accommodation and the meals so that people can just relax and concentrate on their writing. And they have proved really popular. And then we run some specific pottery courses that are led by other people.
Heather Ebanks (30:53)
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (31:13)
So I've just come off the back of a Raku pottery course led by Helen Ashton from the Clay Studio. We had 10 people on that. So it's great fun. They're very intense, for me, very intense busy weeks, managing people's expectations, making sure everyone's having a good time, doing all the meals. But I get so much from it.
Heather Ebanks (31:32)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (31:41)
because it's so lovely to provide a space for artists and writers who, they really appreciate it. just received a message from someone who was here last week saying, I felt so inspired at the mill that I just want to come back. So it's really lovely that other people can see it. And it's not, ⁓ yes, I've...
Heather Ebanks (32:02)
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (32:09)
curated nice little vignettes around the place and everything's very considered in the rooms and the communal spaces. But I think there's something about the mill that really holds people and the landscape and the nature the two of the women that were here were absolutely blown away by the birdsong in the morning and early with blankets and went out and sat outside at five o'clock in the morning.
Heather Ebanks (32:16)
Mm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (32:38)
just to listen to the birds in the dawn chorus. And yeah, it's so lovely that people are giving themselves time to do that, to reconnect to nature. And sometimes all you need is some time in a place that feels nurturing and welcoming and inspiring. And then that's it. That's all I have to do, create that space. And it allows other people's...
Heather Ebanks (32:39)
Wow.
Mm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (33:05)
just drop in and get creative. take so much joy from getting messages and seeing on Instagram people that have come here on Writers Retreats and their books just being published. And I've had a tiny little part in that.
Heather Ebanks (33:16)
Mm-hmm. Wow.
Yeah, was going to just basically answer the question I was going to ask you next. What do you want artists and writers to take away when they leave your retreat? It sounds like it's a very peaceful, peaceful space for them to be themselves.
Nathalie Edwards (33:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's interesting. the other model that we're moving towards is ⁓ creative residencies and artists and writers rooms where I do less of the catering. It's done more as a community, as a group. We've done that a few times and it's worked really well. And that is the model that serves me.
Heather Ebanks (33:45)
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (34:03)
as an artist more because I get to hang out and work alongside other artists and I'm not having to be the head, know, maternal figure that's making sure everyone's got dinner. And I've had to adjust to learning, leaning into people. People can fend for themselves very happily and artists, you know, we're quite good at just like, we get so into the work.
Heather Ebanks (34:08)
Mm.
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (34:30)
And then it's like, oh, I'm hungry. Oh, that's because it's 11 o'clock at night and I haven't eaten anything yet. And going and making a sandwich. I don't have to do that. It's lunchtime, it's breakfast time, it's dinner time for everyone. that sort of supports me as an artist more alongside doing the retreats and the self-directed writers retreats and the pottery retreats. So at the moment, we've got a mix of that. I'm trialing the writers and artists.
Heather Ebanks (34:31)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Mm. Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (35:00)
rooms which is longer stays for cheaper, to make it as accessible for people as possible. At the same time I still need to meet my sort of financial outgoings so it's all I think is a new business you do kind of adjust and weave and change and adapt the basic model but the problem with that in modern society is you have to change all your
Heather Ebanks (35:09)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (35:29)
and you have to update the website
Heather Ebanks (35:32)
there's ups and downs as a business owner but it sounds like you've found your rhythm. I think, you know, you've come a long way from being a project manager, moving country, renovation. I think you broke your leg or something last year on top of everything.
Nathalie Edwards (35:48)
Oh yeah, was
a massive challenge. I broke my ankle the day before I had five artists coming from the States. yeah, I still had a lot to do. I didn't think I had a lot to do, like finishing really didn't think I had a lot to do until you have to ask someone else to do it for you. And then they go...
Heather Ebanks (35:53)
Yeah. That was it, yeah.
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (36:15)
It was my two friends that live here and they've been, they were fantastic. Lots of people were fantastic. But I was like, yeah, I still need to get the car cleaned before I pick everyone up. and then the food shopping and then the food prep So yeah, everyone really rallied around and I think it was.
Heather Ebanks (36:21)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (36:34)
it was almost like it was a sign from the universe to like slow down and to allow other people to help because I have not been very good at that in the past. and other people took on the role of the chaperoning which
Heather Ebanks (36:41)
Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.
Nathalie Edwards (36:52)
that particular retreat I was taking them to different spots to do painting outdoors. ⁓ And the women had the most amazing time and they were wonderful and helpful and it turns out you can cook meals when you're in a wheelchair.
Heather Ebanks (37:08)
hopefully you're much recovered now since that ordeal. Brilliant.
Nathalie Edwards (37:11)
Oh, totally. It's amazing.
But it has really taught me to sort of slow down a bit and not rush around quite so much. And I think there's a lot to learn from being, you know, being present. And that's what happens when we're rushing, we're not present. So we're thinking of 20 things at the same time. I mean, we're in those situations quite often, but that can't and it can't be avoided. I, and it's so I spend quite a lot of time doing things.
Heather Ebanks (37:19)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Hmm.
Yeah, definitely.
Mm. Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (37:41)
like mundane tasks as we all do, it's accepting the mundane as like it's another form of meditation. It's another way of, you know, my mind goes off into other places when I'm making up the beds doing a bit of ironing or sweeping a floor. It's
Heather Ebanks (37:50)
Mmm.
That's where
most people are creative when they're having a shower and best ideas come from mundane.
Nathalie Edwards (38:00)
Exactly, exactly,
exactly. And to be so close to nature and to be able to sit outside and look at stars and go for a walk along the river or up into the hills just from the doorstep is, I feel very blessed, much gratitude. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks (38:12)
Mm.
Yeah, I've seen the pictures of the mill. It looks spectacular and beautiful. So you probably would say this is one of the best decisions you've ever made. And that sounds wonderful.
Nathalie Edwards (38:32)
Yeah, and it's really nice to see, you know, other people using the ceramic studio or other people sitting in the library reading books. it's, yeah, it gives me, it gives me a sense of satisfaction. And, you know, I've created a place where other people can come and dip in and out of that. It's not all been easy. It's there's been like
Heather Ebanks (38:40)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (39:00)
a lot of challenges and mostly it's mostly financial that is the boring bit but I really believe that that's that's becoming easier and easier and if I take out one year of renovation two years of pandemic we're only in the fourth year of business really as a as a functioning business so if I look at it
Heather Ebanks (39:10)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (39:27)
from that perspective, think we're actually really doing well. we always say we to make us seem more important or bigger. I don't know what that's about. But I'm doing a collaboration with Rude Studio. They're coming tomorrow, actually.
Heather Ebanks (39:30)
Mm.
you
Nathalie Edwards (39:46)
for a month long creative getaway where other people join them. And they'll be giving a couple of talks. They are, they've just written a book about how to be creative and they're getting that out into schools and they're working really hard and partnering with other communities to promote creativity to younger people in the UK because it's obviously been slashed from the curriculums
Yeah, so they're working hard on that. So they're coming as their second visit, so I'm super excited that they'll be third visit
Heather Ebanks (40:15)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (40:20)
we've got Rob Ryan, the paper cut artist. He's coming in September with his wife, who's an artist as well. So he'll be here as part of a creative getaway. And we've got people just coming in, like a residency, just coming along and working alongside them, doing their own projects, but coming together for meals And that's what I would say is super interesting to me as well with the writers and whatever group it is.
Heather Ebanks (40:34)
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (40:48)
if it's writers, potters, artists, a mix, however it is, what happens is you get this incredible cross-pollination and the people, for example, on the writers retreat, it's a self-directed writers retreat, so there's no regimented workshops
and the conversations that come out of that when people share what they're writing about, everyone will have the opportunity to say, you read, if you're writing about that, have you read that book? Because that would really...
Heather Ebanks (41:19)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (41:32)
you'd find that super interesting or have you read that, have seen that film? Cause that kind of, character there really resonates with the character you're writing about there. And our top 10 favourite books ever. And that's really interesting when that all drops into the WhatsApp chat of, read similar books and what you like. And then there's the library with quite a big selection of books on how to write books, but by authors that have inspired me.
Heather Ebanks (41:38)
Mmm.
Nathalie Edwards (42:00)
And then other people donate books to the library when they go, I'm leaving this book here and they dedicate a book to the mill. And it's a really, yeah, I've learned so much. So where I was saying earlier on, feel that part of me feels that I wish I was further on in the process of the writing or the ceramics. I'm learning all the time, every time somebody else comes and we learn a different technique.
Heather Ebanks (42:01)
Mm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (42:28)
I'm just like, ⁓ I need to somehow bring that into my pottery it's feeding me as much as and it's feeding each other by just being in community.
Heather Ebanks (42:29)
Mm.
That sounds exactly how a community should work anyway, but I feel that with design as an artist, we always feel like we have to go solo. you're right, being in a community and bouncing off ideas, know, we're kind of like sponges, we absorb all this information and you obviously have learnt a lot from just being in that space. That sounds fantastic.
Nathalie Edwards (42:43)
Boom.
Thank
Yeah.
Heather Ebanks (43:01)
there's a segment of the podcast that it's called Studio Draw. It's basically a play on words like, know, that messy draw that in your studio that you don't want anyone to know about that behind the scenes that basically want to find out as a designer or artist what we're, what we do and what we're like behind.
all the beautiful finished work. what's the most ridiculous thing in your studio or workspace right now and why is it there?
Nathalie Edwards (43:33)
a brass trumpet that was made into a lampshade that I found in a skip. It's broken so it's going back in the skip but I can't quite bring myself to get rid of it and everyone talks about it. But on your... I must say though when I broke my ankle last year...
Heather Ebanks (43:38)
What?
What?
Okay.
Nathalie Edwards (43:58)
My kitchen is white drawers, so all the drawers look exactly the same, because other people were having to help me. I had to make sticky labels for all the drawers so people knew where things went. And there is one drawer that I called the drawer of shame do not enter. And it's the drawer.
Heather Ebanks (44:10)
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (44:21)
it's the drawer that I shove things in where I can't immediately find a space for them anywhere else. So, yeah.
Heather Ebanks (44:30)
that right. You've been warned. what's one thing about your creative process that other people might find surprising?
Nathalie Edwards (44:32)
Enter at your peril.
I think a lot of the written work that I do feels like it's not written by me, it feels like it's through me.
Heather Ebanks (45:01)
what's a creative disaster you still laugh or maybe cry about? What happened in the end?
Nathalie Edwards (45:12)
Hmm
Well, I am testing out a new Raku process for some of my goddesses and it hasn't gone to plan but I have since learnt from somebody else a way to fix it so it's no longer a disaster, it's fixable but that's come from community.
Heather Ebanks (45:21)
Mm-hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (45:40)
and talking to someone else and them saying, ⁓ all you have to do is X, Y, and Z and then that's sorted. And I'm like, Just as well because I have 111 of them to make.
Heather Ebanks (45:41)
Mm.
Excellent.
finally, it's an ask you if.
If you could leave the listener just one piece of real no BS advice about thriving as a creative, what would it be?
Nathalie Edwards (46:07)
It's going to sound like BS. It really is. And it's the hardest thing to do. And it's to trust. Just keep trusting. And that is keep trusting in yourself.
Heather Ebanks (46:18)
Mm. ⁓
Nathalie Edwards (46:22)
And I struggle with this still some days. And it's just trusting that, I don't know if you believe, listeners believe in God, the universe, the higher power, whatever that is, trust that they've got your back, that it's got your back. Because falling into a negative spiral of things being difficult or complicated or...
Heather Ebanks (46:35)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Nathalie Edwards (46:52)
not going the way you wanted them to be doesn't really serve.
serve a purpose we I mean we all go to those like for god's sake I can't believe this that or the other but try not to stay in that place for too long and and look around with gratitude at all the the beauty that is ultimately will be there wherever you are and whatever your situation you can find beauty in things. There's two books
Heather Ebanks (47:05)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (47:24)
that I've found super helpful. ⁓ One is Rick Rubin's The Creative Act, which is a really good reminder. It's very bite-sized and you can dip in and out of it. the copy here has got very well worn because everyone's read it. And Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert is really helpful. And I think if you have some sort of daily practice where you give yourself
Heather Ebanks (47:41)
Mm.
Nathalie Edwards (47:53)
moment either for journaling or meditation or just a moment of stillness and silence where you can just sit really appreciate your cup of tea or your cup of coffee and the way the light is falling and hitting a wall or if you can be out in nature be in nature. I think it can really shift your mindset into a more positive place where it's easier to operate from.
Heather Ebanks (48:12)
Mm.
Excellent. Natalie, thank you very, very much ⁓ for talking to me. if there's anyone who wants to reach out and communicate with you and support you in your business, how would they do that? What are your social handles?
Nathalie Edwards (48:29)
My pleasure.
it's themilfrance.com And on Instagram, it's themilfrance as well. So, yeah, drop us a line.
Heather Ebanks (48:57)
Like many creatives, Nathalie faced guilt for stepping away from a secure career to starting over and moving abroad and the constant challenge of balancing art and financial survival. Yet instead of letting these obstacles stop her, Nathalie turned anxiety into action, transforming an old mill into a retreat and learning to lean on community support.
Our story reminds us that creativity isn't about smooth journeys, it's about persistence, trust and the courage to build space for yourself and others. As you reflect on this episode, ask yourself, where are you holding onto guilt that's blocking your And how can you let others support you so your creativity has more room to Thank you for listening.
If Nathalie's story sparked something in you, hit subscribe, leave a review or share it with someone who needs to hear it. Because bold voices, messy journeys deserve zero apologies.